New research discovers that wind turbines
create a ‘turbulent wake’ that can
steal almost 40% of energy from other
‘nearby’ turbines
American Thinker,
by
Olivia Murray
Original Article
Posted By: DVC,
5/10/2024 5:31:53 PM
Is there a better example of putting the cart before the horse than “green” energy boondoggles of the left?
The answer is a resounding no.
Force conversions to electric vehicles without putting the proper and sufficient charging infrastructure in place? Check.
Manufacture millions (billions?) of solar panels with no disposal plan in place? Check.
Build countless offshore wind “farms” without conducting studies to determine the impacts? Check.
[snip]
Downstream turbulence from offshore wind turbines can reduce power generation at nearby turbines, substantially reducing the total potential from planned U.S. offshore wind projects, according to recent research from the Colorado University Boulder and National Energy Technology Laboratory.
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Reply 1 - Posted by:
DVC 5/10/2024 5:38:57 PM (No. 1715772)
In an axial flow turbine (jet) engine, in the compressor section, one row of turbine blades puts out such vicious turbulence, that it is necessary to have a row of stationary 'turbine blades' in place to remove the turbulence, and straighten out the air flow before it gets to the second stage turbine wheel, and there is a row of "stator blades" behind that one, too.
Each stage of the compressor turbine REQUIRES a stator row of blades to 'unwind' the rotating, turbulent flow that exists that turbine stage.
Same thing in a wind turbine.....although the power flow is from the air to the turbine in the wind turbine, and the power flow is from the turbine to the air in a jet engine compressor. Same aerodynamics.
So.....all they need is a GIANT set of stator blades as big as each turbine right behind it that tracks around as the wind changes direction......simple, right? NO, incredibly expensive, and because the wind comes from varying direction, impossible to actually accomplish.
So, probably ANY wind turbine down wind of another needs to be probably at least 100 to 200 blade diameters away before the turbulence starts to die out. Might be farther. With a 300 foot diameter big turbine, this could be a mile or more apart to avoid interference.
Another reason that these stupid things are a TERRIBLE idea and economically disastrous.
19 people like this.
Reply 2 - Posted by:
DVC 5/10/2024 5:43:42 PM (No. 1715773)
Correction: 100 blade diameters would be 30,000 ft, or just under six miles. So any turbine within even
50 blade diameters is 50 x 300 = 15,000 ft or 2.7 miles is likely to be running at significantly reduced efficiency when the wind direction puts it downwind of another turbine.
Makes the spacing requirements for getting rated power FAR larger. Most of them today seem to be about 1/8 to 1/4 mile apart, well within 'wind shadow' distances.
13 people like this.
Reply 3 - Posted by:
DVC 5/10/2024 5:46:56 PM (No. 1715774)
My rough estimate of at least 6 to 12 miles (100-200 blade diameters) for the wake to dissipate is low.
They say "under certain circumstances' (likely low winds with low natural turbulence) it can be as far as 34 miles. This works out to right at 600 blade diameters, not surprising.
12 people like this.
Reply 4 - Posted by:
Flyball Dogs 5/10/2024 5:55:41 PM (No. 1715776)
Forget the article.
I learn more by reading DVC’s comments and analysis.
WELL DONE!
23 people like this.
Reply 5 - Posted by:
marbles 5/10/2024 6:09:00 PM (No. 1715783)
Wind, solar, never intended to work. It's all about hobbling our country. And of course, us.
17 people like this.
Reply 6 - Posted by:
Digger 5/10/2024 6:09:51 PM (No. 1715785)
Good technical discussions on aerodynamics. The promoters didn’t want to go that deep, preferring to hide the devastating truths from the less technically enabled public. Consider another area of science which is not often considered but often hidden from public scrutiny- Thermodynamics. Portions of the Earth where wind farms and solar arrays are now present were at a state of quasi-equilibrium before those farms and arrays were set up. Energy from the wind and sun was absorbed into the existing landscape and things were rocking along OK. Then a portion of that energy was removed and the landscape had to re-equilibrate with, as yet unknown, consequences. First Law stuff to Mechanical Engineers.
8 people like this.
Reply 7 - Posted by:
jalo1951 5/10/2024 6:11:54 PM (No. 1715787)
This green energy nonsense is about as successful as the covid shot. The more the facts are dug into the more smell is released.
13 people like this.
Reply 8 - Posted by:
Proud Texan 5/10/2024 6:39:09 PM (No. 1715798)
#4 has a point. I don't always agree with DVC, but I ALWAYS look for his comments.
12 people like this.
Reply 9 - Posted by:
reefdiver 5/10/2024 6:43:13 PM (No. 1715800)
Nuclear Power plants are the best choice.
14 people like this.
Reply 10 - Posted by:
RuckusTom 5/10/2024 8:04:24 PM (No. 1715823)
Cough cough ... nuclear ... Cough cough.
4 people like this.
Reply 11 - Posted by:
bpl40 5/10/2024 8:06:04 PM (No. 1715824)
Picking up on #9’s point. It takes 1 square mile to build a nuclear plant that generates 1 Mw of power. It takes 420 sq miles with wind turbines. This calculation will in crease that area even further. This is a lost cause. Clean energy from hydrocarbons and nuclear fission until we have mastered fusion power is the ONLY way.
8 people like this.
Reply 12 - Posted by:
mc squared 5/10/2024 8:33:26 PM (No. 1715830)
I'm no engineer so correct me if I'm out of whack. Air behaves like a fluid and boats can leave a widespread wake affecting othe boats.
6 people like this.
Reply 13 - Posted by:
Jethro bo 5/10/2024 8:53:04 PM (No. 1715833)
Figures. Only our goobernment can find a solution to a none problem by making inefficient wind even more inefficient!
4 people like this.
Reply 14 - Posted by:
jimincalif 5/10/2024 8:54:29 PM (No. 1715835)
Well, duh! Anyone who’s ever raced sailboats understands this. One common tactic is to position your boat such that you dump “bad air” from your sails onto those of your competitors. It slows them down.
7 people like this.
Reply 15 - Posted by:
MickTurn 5/10/2024 8:54:35 PM (No. 1715836)
Wind Turdbines, a bad idea that gets worse when they Freeze and when the WIND BLOWS. How Special, another Leftist Idea gone WORNG!
3 people like this.
Reply 16 - Posted by:
JimBob 5/10/2024 9:59:12 PM (No. 1715867)
Thanks DVC!
Another facet of the wind turbine story that the Lamestreams generally fail to mention is all the wind turbine blades that have reached the end of their useful life (fatigue?) and cannot be recycled. Here's an article that states that the US will have to replace -and dispose of- 8,000 used blades every year -I assume this is with the number of turbines that were in use when the article was written.
Article with photos here:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8294057/Hundreds-non-recyclable-fiberglass-wind-turbine-blades-pictured-piling-landfills.html?trk=public_post_comment-text
4 people like this.
Reply 17 - Posted by:
BarryNo 5/10/2024 10:34:44 PM (No. 1715876)
Same as sailing a ship. One ships sails can block the wind from another sailing ship. Even today, they use the principle on racing yachts. Isnt is special no one had the notion to apply the theory to wind turbines.
Just more proof that not a lot of thought went into this concept. Wind power as it is, is the dream of brainless morons...
4 people like this.
Reply 18 - Posted by:
snakeoil 5/10/2024 10:45:03 PM (No. 1715879)
There is an experiment on wind generation of electricity in the curricula of most engineering schools. The "wind" is produced by an electric fan which turns the fan on a generator which produces electricity. Why don't they use real wind? It's too unpredictable. Wind and Solar electrical generators are great for cats. Wind provides them with sliced bird. Solar provides them with fried bird.
3 people like this.
Reply 19 - Posted by:
DVC 5/10/2024 11:24:46 PM (No. 1715892)
Re #12, yes, good analogy. Perhaps if you consider a pier support in a strong river current, it might be a bit more accurate, but yours is a very useful visualization tool. The invisible air is a problem.
And I have been climbing up in a small aircraft from Pueblo airport one fine evening eastbound. The front range is only 5 or 10 miles west of the airport.
As I climbed steadily, suddenly the rate of climb slowed, then reached zero, then negative values. I checked airspeed and engine conditions and yet, the aircraft wasn't climbing. I called the air traffic controllers and told them I was no longer climbing, received clearance over a range of altitudes. A couple of minutes later, suddenly the rate of climb began to increase rapidly, quickly reaching about 4 times the rate of climb normally possible. I then realized that we were in a strong mountain wave condition.
Downwind from the mountains at certain times the wind from the west rolls in invisible waves for many, many tens of miles in the flat country east of the front range. The down wave totally stopped my climb, and farther east, the up wave lifted the aircraft at far higher rates than normally possible.
We didn't clear these miles long invisible waves entirely until we were about 100 miles east of the mountains.
THAT is the power of the wind, and how far large scale wind turbulence can persist downwind of disturbances.
4 people like this.
Reply 20 - Posted by:
Trigger2 5/11/2024 4:23:07 AM (No. 1715926)
These bird killers are everywhere.
1 person likes this.
Reply 21 - Posted by:
NorthernDog 5/11/2024 8:47:03 AM (No. 1716007)
Somehow the Dutch understood this 500 years ago. Their windmills are spaced well apart. And they also still work.
2 people like this.
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Comments:
This is absolutely unsurprising to this Mechanical Engineer with some college courses in aerodynamics and experience building and flying small aircraft (human carrying, not models). Yep, a field of turbines will have FAR lower efficiency in the downwind turbines than the 'front row' ones. Real science, real fluid dynamics. Wake turbulence takes a LONG distance to disperse.