Ahead of abortion vote, Ohio Supreme Court
has ordered a rewrite of some misleading
ballot language

All these articles lose me when they say 'pro abortion.' The correct wording is pro-choice.

Rewriting to make things unintuitive like voting "no" means "yes"?

Amen, OP. Euphemisms don’t change reality.

Nope, they are pro-abortion. 'Choice' to them means the right to kill your baby. Moloch lives on.

I've never been pro-abortion in my life. I am pro-choice, tho, with a limited time to decide.

With all respect to good-hearted people, like #1, the "choice" you're "pro" is abortion. There may be a distinction in your mind, but as long as the legal "choice" is abortion; that is what you are supporting as Good for other women and for society. Every woman knows, there are two lives involved in her decision, and so does the father of the baby. Where else in society do we allow only one person the ability to give the death penalty to a totally dependent, helpless other person? Being "pro choice" for abortion opens up Pandora's box of all the other "choices" involved in the procedure; do we limit abortions to not after 6 weeks, 8, 10, 12, 16, 24, 36 weeks, birth? As we all know, these are no longer hypothetical or hyperbolic questions. They are the details of real political haggling over legislative language. Haggling over the lives, and dead bodies of babies. Why are expectant mothers being led to believe their babies of 16, 24, 30 weeks gestation are not babies, but just disposable "fetuses" or "products of reproduction"? Could it be because those babies are more valuable parted out to research laboratories? That's where Planned Parenthood really makes their bank. All of this evil is enabled through good-hearted people who have been convinced that being "pro-choice" is compassionate to possible rape or incest victims (a minuscule percentage of pregnancies), or to young teenage girls, or poor working women, or abused wives, or .... Pro Life: From the Womb to the Tomb

Nicely done, #6.

#6, Yes!!! Well said! I have never met you but I love you!

I think people confuse where 'choice' happens in the whole process. When you choose to have unprotected sex that could lead to conception is when you make the choice. All the rest is deflection from the reality of what is happening to justify ending the pregnency. Sorry....not sorry.

I guess I've seen a side of life many haven't. There are 10 year old girls being raped and becoming pregnant. There are men, in this country, who will not 'allow' their wives to use birth control. One man at our health unit actually followed his wife into the exam room to make sure the dr didn't give her any method of birth control. At one point he pulled a knife on the dr. I could go on but like I said, women are not always in control of these situations and yes, I believe they should have a choice.

Unfortunately, today's Democrat party does not believe in a limited time to make that decision, as they are pushing for abortion up-to the day of birth. California added such language into their State Constitution - no woman should feel they need to vote on this issue in the State of California as the rationale to continue protecting a woman's right to choose. It's no longer limited to until viable, etc... they've removed those restrictions in their new push.

#10 - What is your part of the country where the rape and impregnation of 10 year-olds is so prolific, it requires "pro-choice" abortion laws in all 50 states? There has only been one case that was recently publicized because of a politicized doctor. Your other concerns center upon women in abusive relationships; not allowed to use birth control, unable to have private exams with their doctor, and physicians being threatened with bodily harm. Obviously you work or volunteer in a shelter for abused women. I applaud and thank you for your commitment to forgotten and unseen women struggling in terrible circumstances. These women are victims of poverty, ignorance and poor choices. They do need and deserve compassionate assistance. As heartbreaking as the situations are for these unfortunate women, taking the life of the innocent baby in their womb is not the answer to their problems. Nor is it a morally acceptable argument for making abortion legal within any time frame, for all women in all circumstances. It is the Left's oldest trick to use the most extreme cases to tug on people's heartstrings. They play with people's emotions to accept being "pro-choice, tho, with a limited time to decide." Life begins at conception. Every life is precious. Pro Life is pro woman, pro man, pro children, pro family.

You assumed wrong #12. I never worked in a shelter for abused women. It was a state funded health unit. Like I said, I've obviously seen a lot of reality that most haven't. I've never forgotten the 18 year old who just had her 4th baby. I told her about our birth control clinic, which we were specifically told to never do. And the girls going to that clinic could be as young as middle school. If they told us do not tell the parents, we couldn't. There is a whole other world out there. I have stories about the innocent babies who screamed the whole time they were being held by their mother or the child who ran as fast as she could to one of our staff and didn't want to go back to her mother. This is the real world.

#13 - How in all that madness, hurt, and dysfunction does it help to have a young girl, a young woman have a baby ripped from her body? Deny all that it means to be a woman? Deny all that gives dignity to being a woman? Would not the better alternative be the services offered by pro-life clinics? Counseling, support through the pregnancy, help with employment, assistance after the birth of the child with clothes, cribs, car seats and the other necessities. Counseling for possible adoption of the baby. In all the horrific scenarios you relate, where were the social services and child protective services for which we are taxed to provide in these situations? Why should innocent babies in the womb pay the price? Why are horror stories always used to justify nation-wide policies that are then mostly utilized only for convenience by more well-off women? There are other solutions to the terrible and tragic societal dysfunctions you describe than the murder of more babies, because it allows millions of more babies to be murdered that are not the product of horrific conceptions or crappy families. It fosters a culture of death in all economic levels. You say you are pro-choice, but only for a limited time. You've never stated your preferred time limit, or why that limit is preferred. Are babies prior to that time not worthy of life only because their potential life circumstances are not ideal? Because their mother's life circumstances are not ideal? Whether you worked at an abused woman's shelter or a state funded health clinic doesn't really matter. I was only trying to recognize that you obviously worked in a situation where you experienced more than most the tragic side of life. Not as much as you, but I too saw the "other side" working Morning Watch for the LAPD Central Division, downtown. I often cared for abused children in the station before Child Protective Services arrived. I also worked for my county's Social Services Dept. I am not a pampered, cloistered middle-class woman. I'm asking these questions sincerely. I really have a difficult time understanding how people can say they are against abortion but support the Pro Choice position.

#14~ Without any intent to condemn, denigrate or judge #1,#5,#10,#11 Ldotter comments, your masterful, compassionate, wise Ldotter comments reflected in #6,#12,#14 are to be commended. The ability to express the need to live by, and be obedient to, what is written in Scripture is paramount to all of life and most certainly necessary when confronted with life and death decisions. Scripture is replete with the need to care for others with love and compassion. To allow emotion to rule over intellect, to supersede God’s laws is inappropriate and, at times, sinful. “Thou shalt not murder.” Aside from counseling and government social services available for women, the more humane option for an unwanted pregnancy or children who are already born would be adoption; however, at times, adoptions fail. After World War II, orphanages in the United States virtually disappeared. Reformers displeased with orphanages were instrumental in creating the child welfare system. To condense the “history” of orphanages and the child welfare system, as with most things in life, there is good and bad. Tragically, many children placed in foster homes are not in good environments and are poorly prepared for life. Research done by a now very successful individual raised in an orphanage revealed that “an overwhelming majority of alumni from run-of-the-mill orphanages in the 1960s and before have done well (often very well) in life. ... Clearly, families are the bedrock of all societies. The basic problem in child welfare is that many parents, biological and foster, are far from loving and responsible. Indeed, many are derelict in their duties.” Orphanages can be nurturing and caring. “In late 1994, Newt Gingrich was elevated to Speaker of the House and almost immediately made an off-hand comment on how many children in welfare-dependent families would be better off in orphanages. Childcare professionals, with the support of media pundits, went ballistic. Major news magazines went to press with covers of poor orphan waifs with outstretched hands, pleading for “some more” gruel.” In the research, “...85 percent of the surveyed alumni look back ‘favorably’ or ‘very favorably’ on their orphanage days. ... Moreover, the alumni reported that they had done better than the general population on almost all measures, including education, income, attitude toward life, criminal records, psychological problems, unemployment, dependence on welfare, and happiness. For example, the alumni reported that they had an overall college graduation rate 39 percent higher than the general population in their age group.” The researcher concludes: “To have children flourish, much of what the orphanages did was to hold at bay dreadful family forces: for example, serious alcoholism, drug addiction, poverty, and parental fighting. Then, they offered children underappreciated powerful life values, such as a sense of “home,” which includes a sense of stability and permanence, moral guidance from mentors, and attention to education. ... Children in such circumstances can do quite well, as orphanage alumni have proven. Take away those care qualities, and you can have a mess on your hands. I am convinced that (updated) variants of orphanages can work today--because they are working.” ~~~ Reference: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/the-success-story-of-orphanages The Success Story of Orphanages (Richard B. McKenzie - November 23, 2018) ~~~ It may be time for pro-life advocates, as well as pro-choice devotees who align with the thinking of #1,#5,#10,#11 Ldotter comments, to come together and channel their efforts into the restoration of orphanages in this country. Paraphrasing a suggestion by the orphanage-raised researcher, perhaps visiting one of the few remaining orphanages and listen for the children’s laughter would indicate “the good” being accomplished with “disadvantaged children in some distress.” #14~ Superb! Thank you! Blessings!

#15 - Thank you for the interesting information about orphanages. I had forgotten about the dust-up over Gingrich's remark. I agree it is a societal solution that should be revived on a wider scale. That fact that it isn't proves the Democrats in general, and the Left in particular, are not really interested in the welfare of families, children and individuals. If they can't kill them in the womb, dysfunctional families are a preferred option. Like dear poster #1, I've talked with many good-hearted, sincere people who recoil at abortion but fall into the pro-choice position out of misplaced compassion. They are torn up by the present suffering they see in the extreme circumstances. They think if the abortion is done "early enough", when "it" is not really a baby yet, that abortion is acceptable because sometimes it is needed in extreme circumstances. They know they are enabling murder and they feel guilty, yet have to cover it up by claiming to be virtuous helping abused girls and women. It is a terrible position of moral compromise. I pray for #1 and others like her; that the Holy Spirit will give them courage and lead them to take the stand for life.

Thank you, #15 & 16, for the reasonable, caring & truly compassionate discussion of what has become a very divisive & political topic over the years. Man may change, but God never does. I hope, and think, that may be the kind of discussion President Trump is trying to encourage on a national level. We have only seen the opinions of one side presented in a positive light during many years when God was being removed from the public square. There are precious few members of Congress speaking up on it, although I did read about the recent Breitbart interview with Senator Tuberville, and his related efforts to keep Schumer from getting through a quick mass promotion of 300 military personnel without proper vetting. God bless him!

#16,#17~ Thank you for your kindness regarding #15 as well as for the #16,#17 individual commentaries of compassion, understanding, and suggestions of considerations that might lead conflicted pro-choice women to more protective choices and moral responsibility on behalf of babies in the womb. The “Ten Commandments” are just that; not suggestions, but commandments including, “Thou shalt not murder.” For women identifying as pro-choice because of their emotional concerns for women in difficult pregnancy circumstances, the Scripture account of the young man who wanted to follow Jesus but first bury his father was told by Jesus, “Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead.” makes clear that to follow Jesus, FOLLOWING HIM TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE—EVEN VENERATED DUTIES AND TRADITIONS. (Matthew 8:21-22) For those who reject the reality that life begins at conception, consider “The Annunciation” of Mary (Luke 1:26-38). It has been written, “Before this moment of His conception God the Son was not yet man; but from this moment onward He was man.” Further, “Jesus’ first dwelling was not Bethlehem or Nazareth, but the womb of a young virgin named Mary.” (John 1:14) Referencing biology: “Embryologists and every major textbook of Human Embryology states that a new individual human life begins at conception. An international committee called Nomina Embryologica recognizes and approves this definition as correct.” In my twilight years, the teachings of and adherence to Scripture have become more intensified priorities and, as such, intend to approach friends active in Republican politics to consider the merits of Richard McKenzie’s experience of having been raised in an orphanage and its potential value on behalf of unwanted pregnancies as well as a means of avoiding dangerous foster care placements. It may take a grassroots effort to try to encourage pro-life and “selective” pro-choice women to come together on behalf of the unborn and seek government and/or private interests in considering the restoration of orphanages in this country. Orphanages are not be the perfect solution, but far better than murdering unborn babies.

“In my twilight years, the teachings of and adherence to Scripture have become more intensified priorities”. Yes! Beautiful, #18. Actual accounts of accurate helpful information are sorely needed. Truth should be the basis of choice &, sadly, too many lack knowledge . “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.” (Hosea 4:6) If anyone rejects evidence & knowledge of truth after receiving it, that means they have rejected God. He will, of course, reject them. But, at least, people will have tried to help educate them. Hopefully, there will be enough of an education effort nationwide to make a change, now that R vs W has been overturned. That so-called “right” to abortion, & the ambiguity of euphemisms surrounding it, is all that many people have ever known. Truth is a beautiful thing. It provides hope and an emotionally positive choice. It isn’t always the easiest choice in the beginning, but it results in being the best choice when you make it and see it through to the end. Knowledge and availability of positive places to turn can make a huge difference. I receive a magazine from a church run children’s home in my state. Husband & wife church members & their families volunteer to live in cottages on the complex & take in children from troubled backgrounds.They have various facilities & programs that teach and train life skills that many children have never experienced. It is wonderful to read the stories of the children, and to learn from them about the positive changes they experience. I wish there were more homes like that available and teaching children about the differences making the right choices can have in your life. I also agree very strongly with the idea of more properly run orphanages. This isn’t a criticism of the heartfelt concerns of people who protest and pray at abortion clinics. I understand the need to bring awareness of what happens in those facilities. But sometimes I think their activism would have more positive impact by volunteering and bringing awareness about facilities that help to preserve life rather than protesting at places that don’t, and by advocating for such orphanages as you have mentioned.

#19~ Thank you. And thank you for this excellent commentary that is insightful, meaningful, and sorely needed at this point in time. Without question, knowledge and wisdom are essential to the restoration and survival of this country. It has been written that knowledge leads to repentance and faith in the Lord, and wisdom is living the way God intended. “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of KNOWLEDGE; fools despise wisdom and instruction.” (Proverbs 1:7) Having taken God out of this country, the seeds were sown and the harvest is being reaped. Wisdom in the Bible and writings from the ancient Near East teach, “The righteous, who are wise, walk in the way of life as God created it. The wicked, who are foolish, walk in the way of death, which is contrary to God’s created order.” May the prayers offered by believers making every effort to walk in the ways of the Lord be acceptable to Him and, in His own way and time, perhaps bring this country back to its foundation of “In God We Trust” and heal our people and our land. If this is not to be, there is no question in the hearts and souls of believers that whatever happens, all will be well in heaven.